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And you thought iPad was compact - look again!

Posted by Linuxware on Wed 29 Feb 2012 to Linuxware

Many people sing the praises of the iPad but whilst it is a fine piece of technology every kid would maybe like to have, what does it teach them about the real world of computer hardware and software? Well virtually nothing as all the hard work has been done.

Raspberry Pi is a new thumb sized computer running Linux that sells at just £15. It has been designed to teach kids about the nuts and bolts of computing.

See below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13292450

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17190334

L.

Reply by bohnanza on Wed 29 Feb 2012

The RaspberryPi is a wonderful device, but it isn't an advance in childrens' computer education. Schools already have computers, most schools have hundreds of them, plus most children have access to a computer at home. What can the RaspberryPi do that the average school/home not do? Well nothing really.

You can run all sorts of development systems already, On the desktop I am typing this on I can run Mac OS X, Windows, Linux — any variation I want. On these Virtual machines I can develop desktop apps, mobile apps and websites in almost language I want.

The problem with teaching children about programming is teachers don't know how to program. They know how to use Excel and Word and web browsers and are probably amazingly competent at teaching their use, but the number of teachers who can set up Git repository, write a set of Puppet recipes and teach Erlang is fairly minimal.

I have the perfect accent for conflict resolution, shame about the personality.

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. - Christopher Hitchens

Reply by Litany on Wed 29 Feb 2012

and as admirable this is , Kids want to listen to music , play funny games , watch the TV, not circuit boards and learn about variables....

"Litany, a poncy show-off with wit, a camera, and his own teeth *swoon*" Fen "You have some strange taste in music" Me "If I didn't, I wouldn't be half as interesting"

New and Revamped http://www.synthetiklens.com http://synthetiklens.blogspot.com/

Reply by SirOpenSource on Wed 29 Feb 2012

Both above posts have highlighted the problems that the advancement in computer technology has itself caused. The boffins will develop devices for the everyday non tech. community to use but never encourage children [who will become teachers in future years] to be a little adventurous.

My first pc was a Sinclair ZX81 that needed to be assembled because Clive Sinclair knew the importance of showing people what went inside that box of tricks. It's very simple programming got me started.

If it is a requirement of teacher training to learn the basics of what goes inside a PC more children would go on to take courses in computer technology subjects and we would not have to import experts to kick our own flagging industries up the arse.

£15 for a small PC is nothing compared to the price of a Windows multi-user license [or security software license] so instead of being defeatist and stating the obvious, encourage children to look beyond the easy life and start programming.

Third world countries will jump at a chance to buy such technology to teach their children a way out of poverty in the same way Linux has previously opened the door to them. Now many are coming to the UK for work because we don't have enough computing experts.

SOS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by Litany on Wed 29 Feb 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:

If it is a requirement of teacher training to learn the basics of what goes inside a PC more children would go on to take courses in computer technology subjects and we would not have to import experts to kick our own flagging industries up the arse.

spoken as a true non teacher.....

"Litany, a poncy show-off with wit, a camera, and his own teeth *swoon*" Fen "You have some strange taste in music" Me "If I didn't, I wouldn't be half as interesting"

New and Revamped http://www.synthetiklens.com http://synthetiklens.blogspot.com/

Reply by SirOpenSource on Wed 29 Feb 2012

Litany wrote:
SirOpenSource wrote:

If it is a requirement of teacher training to learn the basics of what goes inside a PC more children would go on to take courses in computer technology subjects and we would not have to import experts to kick our own flagging industries up the arse.

spoken as a true non teacher.....

Who has a sister and sister in law both in the teachng profession and agree.

SOS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by Lj_switch on Wed 29 Feb 2012

The comments on this thread highlight a major problem in education. I'm not throwing blame at anyone in particular, though the politicians bear most for their short-sighted knee-jerk forward planning.

Computers, and programming, impinge on all our lives, but to almost everyone - including programmers - how the darn things actually work eludes them. Someone had to design the integrated circuits and other components that make them work, someone else designed the physical structure that holds them all together. Whilst our education system and society in general continues to ignore the Engineering, the knowledge base required to actually make something new will decline, only to be taken over by other countries with a more enlightened attitude.

In my dim and very distant past, I had teachers who stimulated interest, encouraged out-of-the-box thinking and had a cheerful disregard for the curriculum. I can't imagine a modern Chemistry teacher allowing a pupil to distil rhubarb wine, make weedkiller and cause minor explosions in the classroom, nor the Physics teacher who encouraged me to try to make a jet boat powered by a steam boiler, and a cathode ray tube (old style TV set). From all that I developed an inquisitive mind and a firm basis in Engineering, a good foundation for a lifetime's career as an Engineer.

Teachers nowadays are so constrained and hemmed in that they almost never have the opportunity to behave as my teachers did. So I can indeed understand that the Raspberry is never going to get anywhere, because it relies entirely on teachers who have the time AND the inclination AND the knowledge to support it. Which is very sad.

PS just noticed where this thread is situated. I only write assembly language code, am I allowed in ?

be a switch, double your fun :-)

Reply by SirOpenSource on Wed 29 Feb 2012

Lj_switch wrote:
The comments on this thread highlight a major problem in education. I'm not throwing blame at anyone in particular, though the politicians bear most for their short-sighted knee-jerk forward planning.

Computers, and programming, impinge on all our lives, but to almost everyone - including programmers - how the darn things actually work eludes them. Someone had to design the integrated circuits and other components that make them work, someone else designed the physical structure that holds them all together. Whilst our education system and society in general continues to ignore the Engineering, the knowledge base required to actually make something new will decline, only to be taken over by other countries with a more enlightened attitude.

In my dim and very distant past, I had teachers who stimulated interest, encouraged out-of-the-box thinking and had a cheerful disregard for the curriculum. I can't imagine a modern Chemistry teacher allowing a pupil to distil rhubarb wine, make weedkiller and cause minor explosions in the classroom, nor the Physics teacher who encouraged me to try to make a jet boat powered by a steam boiler, and a cathode ray tube (old style TV set). From all that I developed an inquisitive mind and a firm basis in Engineering, a good foundation for a lifetime's career as an Engineer.

Teachers nowadays are so constrained and hemmed in that they almost never have the opportunity to behave as my teachers did. So I can indeed understand that the Raspberry is never going to get anywhere, because it relies entirely on teachers who have the time AND the inclination AND the knowledge to support it. Which is very sad.

PS just noticed where this thread is situated. I only write assembly language code, am I allowed in ?

You may think the Raspberry Pi won't get anywhere but looking at it's twitter feed it sold old soon after release. I've tried to get one and can't for love nor money but won't stop trying.

You and anyone else is welcome to contribute to any Linux subject here, It's what open source is all about;)

SOS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by reservoir_bunny on Wed 29 Feb 2012

Lj_switch wrote:

I can't imagine a modern Chemistry teacher allowing a pupil to distil rhubarb wine, make weedkiller and cause minor explosions in the classroom, nor the Physics teacher who encouraged me to try to make a jet boat powered by a steam boiler, and a cathode ray tube (old style TV set). From all that I developed an inquisitive mind and a firm basis in Engineering, a good foundation for a lifetime's career as an Engineer.

Teachers nowadays are so constrained and hemmed in that they almost never have the opportunity to behave as my teachers did.

I think you might be quite surprised by what does happen in some 21st century science classes. They are a lot less constrained than you might imagine, you need to just take a look at the STEM projects across the country.

Reply by Empress_Martine on Wed 29 Feb 2012

Litany wrote:
and as admirable this is , Kids want to listen to music , play funny games , watch the TV, not circuit boards and learn about variables....

All very well but where do we get the next generation of programmers? This device will teach them how to program and create games,write basic music software etc.Note I have noticed that some teachers can not program in computer languages.Would it not make sense to re train a few out of work programmers from other industries to teach via giving them teaching skills or could these individuals show teachers the basic programming skills.Note this device was first show on Ckick some months ago.It taken too long for the mainstream to catch up.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch."a fragment,Ihad a face on the mirror" Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup

Reply by reservoir_bunny on Wed 29 Feb 2012

Empress_Martine wrote:
Litany wrote:
and as admirable this is , Kids want to listen to music , play funny games , watch the TV, not circuit boards and learn about variables....

All very well but where do we get the next generation of programmers? This device will teach them how to program and create games,write basic music software etc.Note I have noticed that some teachers can not program in computer languages.Would it not make sense to re train a few out of work programmers from other industries to teach via giving them teaching skills or could these individuals show teachers the basic programming skills.Note this device was first show on Ckick some months ago.It taken too long for the mainstream to catch up.

It only went on sale for the first time today, nothing to do with the mainstream catching up. There is not much that is more mainstream than the BBC click programme.

The courses available at school are Information Technology, mainly office and business skills training. All very dull. Michael Gove may be a c**t as far as I am concerned but he is not behind the curve when it comes to making the necessary changes to the teaching of computer SCIENCE in schools. Most IT teachers can do all the programming stuff, they have just been constrained by the curriculum they have had to teach thanks to government pronouncements.

Reply by Ama_Sidero on Wed 29 Feb 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:
Lj_switch wrote:
The comments on this thread highlight a major problem in education. I'm not throwing blame at anyone in particular, though the politicians bear most for their short-sighted knee-jerk forward planning.

Computers, and programming, impinge on all our lives, but to almost everyone - including programmers - how the darn things actually work eludes them. Someone had to design the integrated circuits and other components that make them work, someone else designed the physical structure that holds them all together. Whilst our education system and society in general continues to ignore the Engineering, the knowledge base required to actually make something new will decline, only to be taken over by other countries with a more enlightened attitude.

In my dim and very distant past, I had teachers who stimulated interest, encouraged out-of-the-box thinking and had a cheerful disregard for the curriculum. I can't imagine a modern Chemistry teacher allowing a pupil to distil rhubarb wine, make weedkiller and cause minor explosions in the classroom, nor the Physics teacher who encouraged me to try to make a jet boat powered by a steam boiler, and a cathode ray tube (old style TV set). From all that I developed an inquisitive mind and a firm basis in Engineering, a good foundation for a lifetime's career as an Engineer.

Teachers nowadays are so constrained and hemmed in that they almost never have the opportunity to behave as my teachers did. So I can indeed understand that the Raspberry is never going to get anywhere, because it relies entirely on teachers who have the time AND the inclination AND the knowledge to support it. Which is very sad.

PS just noticed where this thread is situated. I only write assembly language code, am I allowed in ?

You may think the Raspberry Pi won't get anywhere but looking at it's twitter feed it sold old soon after release. I've tried to get one and can't for love nor money but won't stop trying.

You and anyone else is welcome to contribute to any Linux subject here, It's what open source is all about;)

SOS

How many people are going to buy it then realise it doesn't do a lot of things without an internet connection?

:-)

ETA: Just pointing this out, since the comment on the video was about people who couldn't afford a computer, but could afford this - can they afford the web connection? There are a lot of reasonably priced computers, and used ones, and ones on ebay.....

I think the selling power of this is the fact you don't have to carry a laptop obviously around...but what if you don't have a tele handy to hook it up to or keyboard? You might as well have a laptop.

@Play_Space - Next party is Friday, March 2, 2012 and the first Friday of every month!

Road Trip to the Sea!!! The October trip has tJust elapsed...More info here.

Reply by MisterBear on Wed 29 Feb 2012

Linuxware wrote:
And you thought iPad was compact - look again!

It is, it's far more compact that the Raspberry Pi. You seem to have forgotten to take into account that the iPad has a screen and built in keyboard and touchpad. Get all that for the Pi and you are looking at something a hell of a lot bigger than an iPad and the cost for a keyboard, mouse and monitor would knock the cost up towards £100.

Still hopefully it might improve things beyond logo and flowchart software.

I'd like to address the rumours about me having problems with premature ejaculation. I have no such problem at all, I ejaculate when I wish to, if that is too soon for anyone else then it's them who has problems with premature ejaculation.

Reply by bohnanza on Wed 29 Feb 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:

My first pc was a Sinclair ZX81 that needed to be assembled because Clive Sinclair knew the importance of showing people what went inside that box of tricks.

No he didn't. It was assemble yourself because that kept the cost down. 30% of the assembled ones didn't work, which was Sinclair's fault. If 30% of the unassembled ones didn't work that was the customer's fault.

SirOpenSource wrote:

If it is a requirement of teacher training to learn the basics of what goes inside a PC more children would go on to take courses in computer technology subjects and we would not have to import experts to kick our own flagging industries up the arse.

Which a teacher can easily do by taking the case off an existing computer and pointing at the bits inside.

SirOpenSource wrote:

£15 for a small PC is nothing compared to the price of a Windows multi-user license [or security software license] so instead of being defeatist and stating the obvious, encourage children to look beyond the easy life and start programming.

It's £15 plus a monitor, a mouse, a keyboard and a power supply, on top of what they have already spent on computers. No one at school will be taught Word or Excel on a RaspberryPi, schools will still need PCs to do that sort of work. And they will teach a lot more people Word than programming.

It is staggeringly easy to download, for free, a development system for almost any language you want on an existing school machine anyway. The RP doesn't make teaching of computing any easier. The process of teaching is still the same and writing a Python program is just as hard on a RP as it is on a 12 core Mac Pro with 16GB of memory.

SirOpenSource wrote:

Third world countries will jump at a chance to buy such technology to teach their children a way out of poverty in the same way Linux has previously opened the door to them. Now many are coming to the UK for work because we don't have enough computing experts.

Isn't this what they said about the One Laptop Per Child? Supposedly, for $100 you had computer, mouse, keyboard and screen, in reality it was $209. The OLPC project is a bit fucked.

We aren't going to get computer experts because schools have even more computers, we will get them because it is a job people want to do. Give programming a glamorous edge to it and they will flock to university courses.

Lj_switch wrote:

Computers, and programming, impinge on all our lives, but to almost everyone - including programmers - how the darn things actually work eludes them.

The same is true about the internal combustion engine, yet how many people can fix one, let alone design one.

SirOpenSource wrote:

You may think the Raspberry Pi won't get anywhere but looking at it's twitter feed it sold old soon after release. I've tried to get one and can't for love nor money but won't stop trying.

The thing is amazingly good value for what it does, but that doesn't mean it is a new and wonderful teaching tool. It will sell by the container load, just not as many as they hoped to schools.

Something selling well isn't an indication it is any good for a specific purpose. I know quite a few people who have expressed a desire to buy several RP each.

They will work as a media centre, home control centre etc. Buy 25 of them for £545 + VAT and you have a fairly meaty server farm which will run on 125 Watts. Quite a lot less power consumed than a single Intel server.

How many teachers are ex programmers? Not many I bet. Programming is fairly well paid, has pretty low unemployment rates, and not much stress. The number of people going off sick because of a compile error is a lot less than those signed off after having to face 30 yobs who won't sit still and pay any attention.

Who is going to teach the pupils how to program? Most programmers have taught themselves. It is a skill at which the amount of tuition isn't any indicator of competence.

I have the perfect accent for conflict resolution, shame about the personality.

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. - Christopher Hitchens

Reply by Empress_Martine on Thu 1 Mar 2012

reservoir_bunny wrote:
Empress_Martine wrote:
Litany wrote:
and as admirable this is , Kids want to listen to music , play funny games , watch the TV, not circuit boards and learn about variables....

All very well but where do we get the next generation of programmers? This device will teach them how to program and create games,write basic music software etc.Note I have noticed that some teachers can not program in computer languages.Would it not make sense to re train a few out of work programmers from other industries to teach via giving them teaching skills or could these individuals show teachers the basic programming skills.Note this device was first show on Ckick some months ago.It taken too long for the mainstream to catch up.

It only went on sale for the first time today, nothing to do with the mainstream catching up. There is not much that is more mainstream than the BBC click programme.

The courses available at school are Information Technology, mainly office and business skills training. All very dull. Michael Gove may be a c**t as far as I am concerned but he is not behind the curve when it comes to making the necessary changes to the teaching of computer SCIENCE in schools. Most IT teachers can do all the programming stuff, they have just been constrained by the curriculum they have had to teach thanks to government pronouncements.

Just to prove its not all what it seems,it almost pandas to Grove's lack of interest in programming,it armed with bbc basic and C! Both out of date languages!! It should have been armed with C++ and Java! Such a waste of a good idea,let down by those who created it.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch."a fragment,Ihad a face on the mirror" Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup

Reply by SirOpenSource on Thu 1 Mar 2012

Ama_Sidero wrote:
SirOpenSource wrote:
Lj_switch wrote:
The comments on this thread highlight a major problem in education. I'm not throwing blame at anyone in particular, though the politicians bear most for their short-sighted knee-jerk forward planning.

Computers, and programming, impinge on all our lives, but to almost everyone - including programmers - how the darn things actually work eludes them. Someone had to design the integrated circuits and other components that make them work, someone else designed the physical structure that holds them all together. Whilst our education system and society in general continues to ignore the Engineering, the knowledge base required to actually make something new will decline, only to be taken over by other countries with a more enlightened attitude.

In my dim and very distant past, I had teachers who stimulated interest, encouraged out-of-the-box thinking and had a cheerful disregard for the curriculum. I can't imagine a modern Chemistry teacher allowing a pupil to distil rhubarb wine, make weedkiller and cause minor explosions in the classroom, nor the Physics teacher who encouraged me to try to make a jet boat powered by a steam boiler, and a cathode ray tube (old style TV set). From all that I developed an inquisitive mind and a firm basis in Engineering, a good foundation for a lifetime's career as an Engineer.

Teachers nowadays are so constrained and hemmed in that they almost never have the opportunity to behave as my teachers did. So I can indeed understand that the Raspberry is never going to get anywhere, because it relies entirely on teachers who have the time AND the inclination AND the knowledge to support it. Which is very sad.

PS just noticed where this thread is situated. I only write assembly language code, am I allowed in ?

You may think the Raspberry Pi won't get anywhere but looking at it's twitter feed it sold old soon after release. I've tried to get one and can't for love nor money but won't stop trying.

You and anyone else is welcome to contribute to any Linux subject here, It's what open source is all about;)

SOS

How many people are going to buy it then realise it doesn't do a lot of things without an internet connection?

:-)

ETA: Just pointing this out, since the comment on the video was about people who couldn't afford a computer, but could afford this - can they afford the web connection? There are a lot of reasonably priced computers, and used ones, and ones on ebay.....

I think the selling power of this is the fact you don't have to carry a laptop obviously around...but what if you don't have a tele handy to hook it up to or keyboard? You might as well have a laptop.

The Raspberry Pi has 2 versions, 1 with and 1 without Ethernet socket. Some may just want to experiment with programming and leave the I/net for their more powerful machines.

SOS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by Empress_Martine on Thu 1 Mar 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:
Ama_Sidero wrote:
SirOpenSource wrote:
Lj_switch wrote:
The comments on this thread highlight a major problem in education. I'm not throwing blame at anyone in particular, though the politicians bear most for their short-sighted knee-jerk forward planning.

Computers, and programming, impinge on all our lives, but to almost everyone - including programmers - how the darn things actually work eludes them. Someone had to design the integrated circuits and other components that make them work, someone else designed the physical structure that holds them all together. Whilst our education system and society in general continues to ignore the Engineering, the knowledge base required to actually make something new will decline, only to be taken over by other countries with a more enlightened attitude.

In my dim and very distant past, I had teachers who stimulated interest, encouraged out-of-the-box thinking and had a cheerful disregard for the curriculum. I can't imagine a modern Chemistry teacher allowing a pupil to distil rhubarb wine, make weedkiller and cause minor explosions in the classroom, nor the Physics teacher who encouraged me to try to make a jet boat powered by a steam boiler, and a cathode ray tube (old style TV set). From all that I developed an inquisitive mind and a firm basis in Engineering, a good foundation for a lifetime's career as an Engineer.

Teachers nowadays are so constrained and hemmed in that they almost never have the opportunity to behave as my teachers did. So I can indeed understand that the Raspberry is never going to get anywhere, because it relies entirely on teachers who have the time AND the inclination AND the knowledge to support it. Which is very sad.

PS just noticed where this thread is situated. I only write assembly language code, am I allowed in ?

You may think the Raspberry Pi won't get anywhere but looking at it's twitter feed it sold old soon after release. I've tried to get one and can't for love nor money but won't stop trying.

You and anyone else is welcome to contribute to any Linux subject here, It's what open source is all about;)

SOS

How many people are going to buy it then realise it doesn't do a lot of things without an internet connection?

:-)

ETA: Just pointing this out, since the comment on the video was about people who couldn't afford a computer, but could afford this - can they afford the web connection? There are a lot of reasonably priced computers, and used ones, and ones on ebay.....

I think the selling power of this is the fact you don't have to carry a laptop obviously around...but what if you don't have a tele handy to hook it up to or keyboard? You might as well have a laptop.

The Raspberry Pi has 2 versions, 1 with and 1 without Ethernet socket. Some may just want to experiment with programming and leave the I/net for their more powerful machines.

SOS

I have a good working knowledge of C but not bbc basib but I do know ZX80 and 81 basic so it should have similar functions and syntax.I would consider either machine.You can use earthnet for security gate control.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch."a fragment,Ihad a face on the mirror" Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup

Reply by SirOpenSource on Thu 1 Mar 2012

Empress_Martine wrote:
reservoir_bunny wrote:
Empress_Martine wrote:
Litany wrote:
and as admirable this is , Kids want to listen to music , play funny games , watch the TV, not circuit boards and learn about variables....

All very well but where do we get the next generation of programmers? This device will teach them how to program and create games,write basic music software etc.Note I have noticed that some teachers can not program in computer languages.Would it not make sense to re train a few out of work programmers from other industries to teach via giving them teaching skills or could these individuals show teachers the basic programming skills.Note this device was first show on Ckick some months ago.It taken too long for the mainstream to catch up.

It only went on sale for the first time today, nothing to do with the mainstream catching up. There is not much that is more mainstream than the BBC click programme.

The courses available at school are Information Technology, mainly office and business skills training. All very dull. Michael Gove may be a c**t as far as I am concerned but he is not behind the curve when it comes to making the necessary changes to the teaching of computer SCIENCE in schools. Most IT teachers can do all the programming stuff, they have just been constrained by the curriculum they have had to teach thanks to government pronouncements.

Just to prove its not all what it seems,it almost pandas to Grove's lack of interest in programming,it armed with bbc basic and C! Both out of date languages!! It should have been armed with C++ and Java! Such a waste of a good idea,let down by those who created it.

Just to prove it's important to research information well before you post it the Raspberry Pi is capable of using Perl & Python. Don't believe all you read on Wikipeadia!

SOS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by bohnanza on Thu 1 Mar 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:
Just to prove it's important to research information well before you post it the Raspberry Pi is capable of using Perl & Python. Don't believe all you read on Wikipedia!

But can you create Objective C apps for an iPhone on it?

I have the perfect accent for conflict resolution, shame about the personality.

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. - Christopher Hitchens

Reply by SirOpenSource on Thu 1 Mar 2012

bohnanza wrote:
SirOpenSource wrote:
Just to prove it's important to research information well before you post it the Raspberry Pi is capable of using Perl & Python. Don't believe all you read on Wikipedia!

But can you create Objective C apps for an iPhone on it?

I wouldn't want to tbh. The iPhone is everything that Linux is not. If however you were talking about Android....Now that is an interesting proposition.

SOS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by proccie on Thu 1 Mar 2012

bohnanza wrote:
The RaspberryPi is a wonderful device, but it isn't an advance in childrens' computer education. Schools already have computers, most schools have hundreds of them, plus most children have access to a computer at home. What can the RaspberryPi do that the average school/home not do? Well nothing really.

You can run all sorts of development systems already, On the desktop I am typing this on I can run Mac OS X, Windows, Linux — any variation I want. On these Virtual machines I can develop desktop apps, mobile apps and websites in almost language I want.

The problem with teaching children about programming is teachers don't know how to program. They know how to use Excel and Word and web browsers and are probably amazingly competent at teaching their use, but the number of teachers who can set up Git repository, write a set of Puppet recipes and teach Erlang is fairly minimal.

Not true.

Blame the National curriculum for foisting those skills on pupils.

Zen S&M: The sound of one hand slapping.

'()_/)

(>'.'<)

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Reply by Empress_Martine on Fri 2 Mar 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:
Empress_Martine wrote:
reservoir_bunny wrote:
Empress_Martine wrote:
Litany wrote:
and as admirable this is , Kids want to listen to music , play funny games , watch the TV, not circuit boards and learn about variables....

All very well but where do we get the next generation of programmers? This device will teach them how to program and create games,write basic music software etc.Note I have noticed that some teachers can not program in computer languages.Would it not make sense to re train a few out of work programmers from other industries to teach via giving them teaching skills or could these individuals show teachers the basic programming skills.Note this device was first show on Ckick some months ago.It taken too long for the mainstream to catch up.

It only went on sale for the first time today, nothing to do with the mainstream catching up. There is not much that is more mainstream than the BBC click programme.

The courses available at school are Information Technology, mainly office and business skills training. All very dull. Michael Gove may be a c**t as far as I am concerned but he is not behind the curve when it comes to making the necessary changes to the teaching of computer SCIENCE in schools. Most IT teachers can do all the programming stuff, they have just been constrained by the curriculum they have had to teach thanks to government pronouncements.

Just to prove its not all what it seems,it almost pandas to Grove's lack of interest in programming,it armed with bbc basic and C! Both out of date languages!! It should have been armed with C++ and Java! Such a waste of a good idea,let down by those who created it.

Just to prove it's important to research information well before you post it the Raspberry Pi is capable of using Perl & Python. Don't believe all you read on Wikipeadia!

SOS

My research was based on a bbc news report and Perl and Python are good programming tools.I think I have a Perl package somewhere.Now could it use Asp?

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch."a fragment,Ihad a face on the mirror" Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup

Reply by bohnanza on Fri 2 Mar 2012

Empress_Martine wrote:
My research was based on a bbc news report and Perl and Python are good programming tools.I think I have a Perl package somewhere.Now could it use Asp?

The RP will run almost any programming language and environment you want, apart from things like Visual Studio and XCode. Getting it to run them isn't the problem, the problem is how do you make pupils want to learn programming?

It isn't by giving them 32 computers each, it is by making programming am activity they want to do. Programming: the job with no glamour, excitement or women, how could a 14 year old resist the lure?

I have the perfect accent for conflict resolution, shame about the personality.

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. - Christopher Hitchens

Reply by Empress_Martine on Fri 2 Mar 2012

bohnanza wrote:
Empress_Martine wrote:
My research was based on a bbc news report and Perl and Python are good programming tools.I think I have a Perl package somewhere.Now could it use Asp?

The RP will run almost any programming language and environment you want, apart from things like Visual Studio and XCode. Getting it to run them isn't the problem, the problem is how do you make pupils want to learn programming?

It isn't by giving them 32 computers each, it is by making programming am activity they want to do. Programming: the job with no glamour, excitement or women, how could a 14 year old resist the lure?

You got it in a nutshell.My generation enjoyed a challenge of lifting up the hood and tinkering around with a device etc to see what we could make it do.The teenagers today just want to be famous.We need to show them that programming can be fun,useful and a skill that can earn them a stable living unlike the fickle hand of X factor.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch."a fragment,Ihad a face on the mirror" Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup

Reply by done_with_wondering on Sat 3 Mar 2012

Why teach pupils to program when programming jobs are increasingly outsourced to India and economies with lower labour costs? Code is quick, cheap and easy to import and export.

"Wisdom begins in wonder” (Socrates)

"Imagination is more important than knowledge" (Albert Einstein)

Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est. http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/226772/

Reply by SirOpenSource on Sat 3 Mar 2012

wonderer wrote:
Why teach pupils to program when programming jobs are increasingly outsourced to India and economies with lower labour costs? Code is quick, cheap and easy to import and export.

The view you hold is frequently stated and at first glance seems to be the only answer however just buying other countries latest technology will not help the children of this country in the future. They will have to be concieving and designing the future software and hardware not just to have a job but to have a future.

Industry opinion states that there is even now a growing need for mid to high level Linux technology experts. Your DVD player, TV, Washing machine, answerphone, central heating and mobile phone, to name just some everyday devices all use Linux. The Pi was designed in the Uk and although it is a shame we don't have the manufacturing capability to produce it here it's under UK license. A media player has been built by XBMC using a Pi and it's possibilities are multiple. Hopefully the Raspberry Pi will inspire other entrepreneur geeks to design more such devices.

SOS

Edited to correct ballsup.

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by Empress_Martine on Sat 3 Mar 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:
wonderer wrote:
Why teach pupils to program when programming jobs are increasingly outsourced to India and economies with lower labour costs? Code is quick, cheap and easy to import and export.

The view you hold is frequently stated and at first glance seems to be the only answer however just buying other countries latest technology will not help the children of this country in the future. They will have to be concieving and designing the future software and hardware not just to have a job but to have a future.

Industry opinion states that there is even now a large market in mid to high level Linux technology experts. Your DVD player, TV, Washing machine, answerphone, central heating and mobile phone, to name just some everyday devices all use Linux. The Pi was designed in the Uk and although it is a shame we don't have the manufacturing capability to produce it here it's under UK license. A media player has been built by XBMC using a Pi and it's possibilities are multiple. Hopefully the Raspberry Pi will inspire other entrepreneur geeks to design more such devices.

SOS

And this why we must stop outsourcing,teach children etc to program and stop buy white goods,i.e. washing machines etc from abroad and build hardware and software here.If we do not invest in Britain,we will become a forth rate nation with all the baggage that brings with it!

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch."a fragment,Ihad a face on the mirror" Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup

Reply by done_with_wondering on Sat 3 Mar 2012

SirOpenSource wrote:
wonderer wrote:
Why teach pupils to program when programming jobs are increasingly outsourced to India and economies with lower labour costs? Code is quick, cheap and easy to import and export.

The view you hold is frequently stated and at first glance seems to be the only answer however just buying other countries latest technology will not help the children of this country in the future. They will have to be concieving and designing the future software and hardware not just to have a job but to have a future.

Industry opinion states that there is even now a growing need for mid to high level Linux technology experts. Your DVD player, TV, Washing machine, answerphone, central heating and mobile phone, to name just some everyday devices all use Linux. The Pi was designed in the Uk and although it is a shame we don't have the manufacturing capability to produce it here it's under UK license. A media player has been built by XBMC using a Pi and it's possibilities are multiple. Hopefully the Raspberry Pi will inspire other entrepreneur geeks to design more such devices.

SOS

Edited to correct ballsup.

I think tasks such as understanding (UK) markets and requirements, and coming up with designs are indeed jobs which are likely to be best done here. It's the actual programming which is more frequently outsourced. (Whether this is cost effective is a moot point,given the extra detail required in program specification and also the extra testing required on code produced when the relationship is contractual between companies rather than colleagues within a company ).

"Wisdom begins in wonder” (Socrates)

"Imagination is more important than knowledge" (Albert Einstein)

Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est. http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/226772/

Reply by SirOpenSource on Sun 4 Mar 2012

wonderer wrote:
SirOpenSource wrote:
wonderer wrote:
Why teach pupils to program when programming jobs are increasingly outsourced to India and economies with lower labour costs? Code is quick, cheap and easy to import and export.

The view you hold is frequently stated and at first glance seems to be the only answer however just buying other countries latest technology will not help the children of this country in the future. They will have to be concieving and designing the future software and hardware not just to have a job but to have a future.

Industry opinion states that there is even now a growing need for mid to high level Linux technology experts. Your DVD player, TV, Washing machine, answerphone, central heating and mobile phone, to name just some everyday devices all use Linux. The Pi was designed in the Uk and although it is a shame we don't have the manufacturing capability to produce it here it's under UK license. A media player has been built by XBMC using a Pi and it's possibilities are multiple. Hopefully the Raspberry Pi will inspire other entrepreneur geeks to design more such devices.

SOS

Edited to correct ballsup.

I think tasks such as understanding (UK) markets and requirements, and coming up with designs are indeed jobs which are likely to be best done here. It's the actual programming which is more frequently outsourced. (Whether this is cost effective is a moot point,given the extra detail required in program specification and also the extra testing required on code produced when the relationship is contractual between companies rather than colleagues within a company ).

I recognise your point but the Pi is designed as a means to an end. From all the rumblings I hear It will go a long way.

I link you to this from the Raspberry Pi Twitter feed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT7_IZPHHb0

SOS

The Titter_Ye_Not group - for when you don't feel too serious.

Linuxware - The Linux user goup

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers. - Mahatma Gandhi

www.Londonmunch.co.uk

Londonmunch@hotmail.com - Enquiries

Reply by bohnanza on Sun 4 Mar 2012

wonderer wrote:
Why teach pupils to program when programming jobs are increasingly outsourced to India and economies with lower labour costs? Code is quick, cheap and easy to import and export.

Were you on the technical mailing lists I am on, you would realise there are a lot more programming jobs available up here in sunny Scotland than there are people to fill them. I could give you the names of three companies you have heard of who are continually hiring. Added to that the companies you probably haven't heard of who are also continually hiring and those who post several job ads a week.

I have the perfect accent for conflict resolution, shame about the personality.

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. - Christopher Hitchens

Reply by proccie on Sat 17 Mar 2012

wonderer wrote:
Why teach pupils to program when programming jobs are increasingly outsourced to India and economies with lower labour costs? Code is quick, cheap and easy to import and export.

We hardly make anything in this country any more, because labour is cheaper in China, Taiwan, India and the rest of the third world, now you are advocating letting them do the thinking for us as well.

Just what are the future generations of little Englanders going to do to justify their existence on this planet?

Zen S&M: The sound of one hand slapping.

'()_/)

(>'.'<)

(")_(") < MINE!