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Posted by chartreuse on Mon 14 Nov 2011 (modified Sat 10 Nov 2012) to FemDom_forum

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Reply by tanken on Mon 14 Nov 2011

:-D

Happiness is a warm bum :)

Reply by prettyPETunia on Mon 14 Nov 2011

Yeah, il reply to whatever in a minute,...err,

If love is blind I need to find a cane

Reply by Prussian_blue on Mon 14 Nov 2011

People repeat things because they think they haven't been heard, I reckon women tend do this more than men because a man generally doesn't signal understanding in the same way a woman does. So she repeats herself (nags).

Like you pointed out, what's important to a woman isn't always a priority for a man.

If putting the bins out was linked to sexual attention then the bins would be put out before you had finished speaking...

.

Men - less complicated than you think

Reply by MistressStar on Mon 14 Nov 2011

I have always been careful not to talk to my husband in a way that can be perceived as nagging. But he tells me he needs to be nagged - talk about a no win situation!

He is an expert of procrastination, but 12 years of marriage means I know how to say things to get him to do them.

~ It is always by way of pain one arrives at pleasure ~

Reply by Scrumptious on Mon 14 Nov 2011

Men arent nags because they accept that it will either be done or it wont.

Women are nags because if it is t done by their schedule they think he forgot.

Reply by mistletoad on Mon 14 Nov 2011

something to do with average lifespan, losing the will to live and can't be fucking bothered, probably

and every woman on the planet can talk a glass eye to sleep

Reply by mistletoad on Mon 14 Nov 2011

who's fault is that, first you nag, then you whine, typical woman

Reply by xavalonx on Mon 14 Nov 2011

Lol, i do as im told...

'Life shrinks or expands in proportion to ones courage.' Anais Nin. The Diary of Anais Nin volume 3, 1939-1944

Reply by Sorceror on Mon 14 Nov 2011

Two words...

High maintenance.

S.x.

Reply by Prussian_blue on Mon 14 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
So... man should be "rewarded" with something sexual, for his pleasure, in order to do anything a woman asks of him!
I didn't mean something quite so forward :) A hint is all that is required.

Touch his neck and ask him to put the bins out, reward that task with a kiss later. Now he's associated doing that with getting a kiss - in the future bin duty will have a priority. If you want him to climb Mt Everest because your G&T needs ice, then you can raise the stakes a little.

chartreuse wrote:
If a man doesn't want to turn his woman into a nag why can't he just please her and do as he has been asked, at the first time of asking, in the same way a woman would?

Doing what someone else asks isn't a priority, getting what he wants is. All it takes is for him to see that doing x gets him y later. Women aren't driven by anything quite so primal, jewellery and shoes are more abstract motivators.

Now I'm wondering how you got to be a domme without knowing how to manipulate men :)

Reply by Prussian_blue on Mon 14 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
Maybe I don't want to have to manipulate one all the time to get the best out of him, why should I use "his sexual gratification" as the carrot?
Why should men buy women jewellery and whisk them off to Paris for the weekend when their enormous love sword should be enough? Probably because they've worked out it isn't, but they do happen to know of other buttons to push. Same thing.

chartreuse wrote:
I know how to manipulate them but if a man doesn't show willing to serve, without being constantly coersed via the "sex route"
This is moving the goal posts, if >submission< is expected then you can quite rightly expect that without having to manipulate - although personally I think manipulation is effortless and more fun.

Why expect men to respond to a higher level reward concept (do this, it makes me happy) when you can cut to the chase and appeal directly to his primal drive (do this, one day I'll consider something sexual).

It's like training a chimp to jump into a box when all you have to do is toss a banana in there.

. Put him in a chastity belt - spot the difference in ten seconds flat :)

Reply by nepthys on Mon 14 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
Why aren't men "nags"?

This is one of the failings of the male - they turn women into nags through their own thoughtlessness and inability to realise how important it is to please someone other than themselves!

I think there's a lot of truth in that!

Men, I think prioritise and order their lives completely differently, whether that is through social conditioning or innate biology I am not sure.

I think the difference in task prioritising and gratification are completely different and leads to 'conflict' i.e. the perceived 'nagging' behaviour.

As you say, men do appear to be more ego-centric and thus find the whole gratification, subjugation of self more difficult.

(although in actuality they are hopeless buggers with no sense, who need strong women to make them function!)

Reply by nepthys on Mon 14 Nov 2011

Historically 'nagging' was always seen as a female 'crime'(hence the Scold's bridle and similar devices).

Very very few documentary sources for men wearing Scold's bridles

I can wax lyrical about the subjugation of women and the ridiculing of 'nags' or dominant women...

Reply by nepthys on Mon 14 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
Strange really, when you think about it men show they are totally capable of behaving in the ways a woman likes, especially when in the first flush of a relationship... why does it so often fade (and die)?

I think I need to revist the evolutionary biological theories on human sexual behaviour..

I suspect it is something along the lines of appeasement/mating and ritual behaviour.

Probably no adaptive or evolutionary advantage to males in carrying on that behaviour once they have a mate.

Reply by prettyPETunia on Mon 14 Nov 2011

Nepthys wrote:
chartreuse wrote:
Strange really, when you think about it men show they are totally capable of behaving in the ways a woman likes, especially when in the first flush of a relationship... why does it so often fade (and die)?

I think I need to revist the evolutionary biological theories on human sexual behaviour..

I suspect it is something along the lines of appeasement/mating and ritual behaviour.

Probably no adaptive or evolutionary advantage to males in carrying on that behaviour once they have a mate.

Sitting back admiring 2 of my fave womens having a good old natter. Loverly. they are so right about us blokes

If love is blind I need to find a cane

Reply by nepthys on Mon 14 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:

You're probably right - many seem to not want to mate for life, they only want the chase and the conquest?

Why is it that (when they lose their "prize", due to the lack of attention to it) they don't like to pull their socks up in order to gain the next conquest, they let their "plummage" go to rack and ruin; reducing their odds of winning another mate, and then wonder why they can't attract one?! Surely they are not stupid enough to think that winning one is all that's required, a relationship needs to be nurtured for longevity. The human psyche is a complicated maze, just when you think you know your way through it, someone puts an invisible barrier in your way and you have to recalculate your journey.

I think this is all done on a primitive subconscious level, I don't think they are particularly aware of these processes.

I do agree with your latter statement, I've always assumed men to be a non-complex species, but just when I think I have their measure they not only move the goalposts but have them twirling like Maypoles too!

Reply by Imagination42 on Mon 14 Nov 2011

I thought it was a good thread actually ;)and the answer to the question put later in the thread Question"Do men do that?! If any of them do, don't they enjoy it, too?" the answer is yes.

chartreuse wrote:
Sorceror wrote:
Two words...

High maintenance.

S.x.

The woman or the man?

Comment Inserted by "Imagination"

Now the answer to this one is they both can be and often they are both not. I think the best ones are in fact low maintenance , and they are much more fun when they are that way, because they use their thought to navigate out of the situation rather than money.

An interesting mind is an open mind and an honest mind .

Reply by nepthys on Mon 14 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
A relationship can be a thing of beauty, a priceless sculpture... mishandle it, drop it and it falls; chips and cracks appear, drop it often enough and what was once a thing of great beauty eventually becomes an ugly mess, something to be discarded and replaced.

I think that also depends on how hard two people try not to drop things and mend those fractures and splinters if they do...

Life innit?

I've been on both ends, the fractured mess and the incredible beautiful whole.

It's all a case of balance and counterpoint, even in a FLR.

Reply by tanken on Mon 14 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
Nepthys wrote:
I think there's a lot of truth in that!

Men, I think prioritise and order their lives completely differently, whether that is through social conditioning or innate biology I am not sure.

I think the difference in task prioritising and gratification are completely different and leads to 'conflict' i.e. the perceived 'nagging' behaviour.

As you say, men do appear to be more ego-centric and thus find the whole gratification, subjugation of self more difficult.

(although in actuality they are hopeless buggers with no sense, who need strong women to make them function!)

Strange really, when you think about it men show they are totally capable of behaving in the ways a woman likes, especially when in the first flush of a relationship... why does it so often fade (and die)?

I'm not a biologist but I think male (and female) hormonal activity is different when in a couple, especially sleeping together every night. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us?

Happiness is a warm bum :)

Reply by Prussian_blue on Mon 14 Nov 2011

tanken wrote:
I'm not a biologist but I think male (and female) hormonal activity is different when in a couple, especially sleeping together every night. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us?
(I think) Oxytocin in women goes up after sex and they feel bonded to the male, progesterone goes down in the male to much the same effect.

Actually I thought Oxytocin was a treatment for acne :)

Of course the purchase of a latex catsuit is far more effective in holding his attention.

Reply by Romolalalalalalala on Mon 14 Nov 2011

Men do nag. Some of them anyway. Nagging is a useless device used by people who want to try to change someone else's behaviour but have no power to do so.

It's only a weblog :-)

Reply by prettyPETunia on Tue 15 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
Nepthys wrote:
I think that also depends on how hard two people try not to drop things and mend those fractures and splinters if they do...

Life innit?

I've been on both ends, the fractured mess and the incredible beautiful whole.

It's all a case of balance and counterpoint, even in a FLR.

Absolutely, it takes two to make it work - both need to pay attention. If the balance is heavily in favour of one side restoring the equilibrium is an art that both have to strive for, one can't do it alone.

The 3 C's. Communication, something else, and compromise. It was on corry last night. I forgot what the middle one was. But it sounded good...for a soap.

^^^^^ this might be symbolic of blokes. I love corry, but just because I didnt concentrate hard enough to note what was actually said, doesnt make me think I love corry any less, tho.

If love is blind I need to find a cane

Reply by Mattbucks on Tue 15 Nov 2011

Not all women are nags, but some have taken it to an artform. My mum is a prime example, she will say to me (or used to say to my Dad), can you do X by next week, he or I would say yes, then the next day we would be nagged as to why it wasn't done yet. The reply that you asked if we could do something for you in a certain timeframe, we're still within that time frame, why are you nagging me. Whatever it was would always get done by the requested time (if it was reasonable, if it wasn't we would have said no), but it was the being nagged (reminded) 2-3 times a day before the deadline had expired that made it nagging.

There is also the generic nagging about nothing in particular, the reminding about something that doesn't have a purpose or solution, or a deadline that is frustrating. A lot of it is down to the differences in the way that men and women communicate, men tend to be direct, women are indirect. Same problem, different way the sexes would ask (though somewhat exaggerated)

Man: Darling I know you need to hang all your clothes up, but would you please be able to leave the last quarter inch of the rail so that I can hang up my work shirts, thanks. Result: Woman knows to leave a bit of space for his work shirts

Women: Darling, I have lots of clothes that need to hang up so I can look my best for work. Results: Man wonders what she is on about when she already has three quarters of the hanging space in the wardrobes.

One way of communicating isn't necessarily right or wrong, another woman would probably understand exactly what the woman meant, and would probably find the mans way slightly abrubt.

Women need to remember that us blokes are simple creatures when it comes to instructions, if you want us to do something ask it in plain English, suggest a reaconable deadline (before the weekend as my sister is coming over?) and don't mention it again before that deadline has expired. Also to avoid it being nagging, make sure its actually asking and not just telling us with a question mark at the end of the sentance, something we are actually able to say no to occasionally (ie I can't do it before the weekend as I'm away on business and won't be back until midnight Friday) rather than us not being able to do it and then being moaned at after the fact.

Nagging is also "negative reinforcement", if someone is just about to do something and they get nagged it more often than not makes them change their mind and put it off because they don't want to reward the nagger, so the nagging actually delays whatever it is they want to achieve (unless they are trying to achieve annoyance).

Ultimately there are some people who will fall outside of all that, women who will nag regardless of reason or rationality and men who will never do the simpliest task.

Reply by s1aveguy on Tue 15 Nov 2011

This is another sweeping generalisation attempting to contrast the gender differences. I know examples of men that nag all the time and women that don't nag much at all. Only these men are known as grumpy instead of being accused of nagging.

If god intended us to be vanilla there would be no chocolate chilli mango, now would there?

Reply by Out_of_Here on Tue 15 Nov 2011

Nagging seems to me to be an expression of the powerlessness someone feels.

If some one asks another to carry out a reasonable task in a reasonable time and they don't do it, then it will make the person realise they have no power in that situation. They have tried asking and this did not work. Once they ask again, they are often labelled as 'nagging' but short of doing the job themselves, they are stuck.

The job remain still undone. They are told they are nagging if they ask for it to be done. So, with growing frustration, they must submit to being called and made into a nag by other person and their refusal to complete a job on time. So, they do it themselves or just accept they are powerless and the job is still not done.

I know some will argue that the whole issue might rest upon what is meant by 'reasonable task in reasonable time' and this definition will be different if the two protagonists have greatly different priorities.

I never feel I am a nag in my FLR with @paulss because I have a great deal of power in that relationship. If I ask something of paul, I trust that if I have made misunderstood his available time or capability to do the task, he would clearly tell me. If he has no reason not to do the job, then I know it will get done.

Rarely I will have to remind him, but if this happens, it is genuinely due to forgetfulness. He will then apologise and get on with it very soon after and I know from his lack of defensiveness and graceful acceptance of the reminder that he is willing and happy to do the job.

I don't believe people waste their energy in 'nagging' unless they know from previous experience that nothing ever gets done when they do ask and so they react from a frustrated and powerless position to remind and remind as they have no other option.

I feel sorry that people often live in houses together and yet apparently have so little in the way of common priorities. Families and partnerships will only work well if people 'own' their communal responsibilities.

Mistress of @paulss My PD blog at http://mistress-keene.blogspot.com/ http://twitter.com/#!/Mistress_Keene

Reply by fuhgeddaboudit on Tue 15 Nov 2011

It's such a great cliched stereotype...about women chewing off their man's ear. Yak, yak, yak....

If couples lack good communication between them, are possibly bored and/or don't know or care what makes one another really happy then it's common sense things will crash and burn if they continue.

Logically and intuitively why would any man chose to give his wife/girlfriend/partner reason to whinge and give him GBH of the earhole?

Only reasons I feel are one of the following:

1) he is really selfish and lazy 2) he has a peanut for a brain 3) he doesn't value the relationship 4) he is bored.

So that begs the question if he is 1) or 2) the what did she see in him in the first place and why does she stay with him?? Or if he is 3) or 4) then what in their relationship has changed and why?

I have a theory that couples who don't work on their relationships, allow complacancy to set in and inevitably take each other for granted are likely to end up with one or other partner starting pointless arguments about minor stuff. Even to the point of deliberately winding-up the other to relieve the boredom and vent their frustration.....

People who aren't bored with their relationships or frustrated with their lives don't want or feel the need to piss their partner off. Fulfilled and contented people use their energies constructively not destructively.

Seems simple but it sounds like a good theory (maybe!)

Reply by tanken on Tue 15 Nov 2011

Prussian_blue wrote:
tanken wrote:
I'm not a biologist but I think male (and female) hormonal activity is different when in a couple, especially sleeping together every night. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us?
(I think) Oxytocin in women goes up after sex and they feel bonded to the male, progesterone goes down in the male to much the same effect.

Actually I thought Oxytocin was a treatment for acne :)

I think more hormones are involved and the male sex drive lessens to a degree in close proximity to the same partner. I don't have a link but I'm guessing that in evolutionary terms it's about wanting to get as many women pregnant as possible. I know men don't want that today but our body chemicals take a long while to evolve I'm guessing.

Happiness is a warm bum :)

Reply by fuhgeddaboudit on Wed 16 Nov 2011

Mephista wrote:
@miss_take_me

It seems a fair theory to me.

Nagging's not fun for either person and it signals a real problem in the relationship - and one in which both people are somehow complicit.

It takes two people to fix a relationship and one person to end it.

No-one should have to stay in a relationship in which there's no respect - it sucks the life out of you.

So agree.

The thing is no-one DOES need to stay in a relationship which lacks mutual respect. It is a choice people make. We all have free will to walk away rather than just nag away.

If both partners failed to talk through problems and resolve them early, then they risk things going irrevocably wrong.

However, fear holds people back - fear of the unknown, insecurity and the upheaval. Denial or coming up with a list of reasons NOT to LEAVE the length of a roll of Andrex is easier for many than recognising the (positive) reasons to STAY would barely fill a small "post-it"!

Once that "sell by date" has been reached, it's gone off and time to bin it, as it's going to leave a bad taste in both mouths the longer it hangs around.

Reply by x_x_x_x on Wed 16 Nov 2011

I guess I disagree with the whole premise that women can be nags but that men are not. Men can and do go on and on and on about something, wear their partner down, pressurise him or her into doing something they don't intuitively want to do. Because of gender stereotypes, men are rarely nagging about getting their partner to put up shelves, pick up socks (except perhaps the man's?) or put down the toilet seat. They nag about anal sex, wearing uncomfortable revealing lingerie, dressing up in leather and pvc....

Why are men not called "nags"? That I don't know, though perhaps it is because men tend to have more and more public unpleasant terms for their female partners; women tend to keep that stuff more between themselves.

For myself, I have tried to learn not to nag and to hear what my Boss wants the first time. And wearing women's underwear has definitely taught me not to expect her to wear anything I couldn't wear for more tan 10 mins....

Reply by fuhgeddaboudit on Wed 16 Nov 2011

Mephista wrote:

No, no-one does need to stay in a relationship. But they do for all sorts of reasons - of which hope and love are two.

Then there's children - though in my opinion no child should grow up in within an environment without mutual respect.

And for a lot of people there's still shame and stigma around "failed relationship"

I think two determined and committed people can fix just about anything... but no-one can mend a relationship unilaterally.

Hope is often a mask for denial when deep down they know it's over.

Staying together for the sake of the children is a classic excuse which as we all know is so ironic, since the children suffer more when they hear their parents arguing regularly and are miserable. Even worse are the parents who slag one another off to their children. No child wants to play piggy in the middle.

Although with divorce rates being so high these days I think people don't worry about failed relationships like they did 30 years ago where there was a real stigma. So the lack of stigma is probably a contributory factor to people's laziness and indifference to fixing problems as they arise.

It's a throw away society we live in - unfortunately - and too many people treat their relationships the same way. Walking into a relationship knowing there is always an easy get out clause allows such people to put less effort into making it work.

If one person is of that mindset from the outset, it's more likely to fail, even if the other is really committed.

Reply by fuhgeddaboudit on Wed 16 Nov 2011

chartreuse wrote:
Let's look at this from a slightly different angle, shall we?

Let's say, for example, that a male (sub) has a terrible memory, he admits it, recognises it and gives the power of his memory to the woman (dominant).

When the male has something he has to do, something he himself wants to do and has told the woman about, in order for her to be his memory, to remind him because he will forget... is her reminding him of what his plans are "nagging"?

From my point of view... this could be either:

the male shirking his responsibilities

OR

the male handing control of his life over to the woman.

Which do you think it is?

Also, should the woman accept that responsibility (as his dominant) in order to support the male or should she let him forget and fail? If he knows (due to his past experiences and never having ever got the hang of remembering things himself) he will fail if not reminded and that is why he has asked for her support in this area, can her reminding him (something they both know he needs/wants) be considered "nagging"?

It's not nagging if the man has a poor memory and has asked his partner to remind him of stuff to do.

Although, if he is so absent-minded, he really must either have a really hectic, demanding job/life so stuff gets forgotten unintentionally or else he just has the memory of a goldfish and is not the sharpest tool in the toolbox!

There is of course the third possibilit that he chooses to suffer from that old favourite "selective memory" and just abdicates his responsibilties by asking his Domme to act as his walking/talking diary and planner.

Does that make her his P.A then??? Hmmmm.....;)

Reply by tanken on Wed 16 Nov 2011

DrTaps wrote:
I guess I disagree with the whole premise that women can be nags but that men are not. Men can and do go on and on and on about something, wear their partner down, pressurise him or her into doing something they don't intuitively want to do. Because of gender stereotypes, men are rarely nagging about getting their partner to put up shelves, pick up socks (except perhaps the man's?) or put down the toilet seat. They hag about anal sex, wearing uncomfortable revealing lingerie, dressing up in leather and pvc....

Why are men not called "nags"? That I don't know, though perhaps it is because men tend to have more and more public unpleasant terms for their female partners; women tend to keep that stuff more between themselves.

For myself, I have tried to learn not to nag and to hear what my Boss wants the first time. And wearing women's underwear has definitely taught me not to expect her to wear anything I wouldn't wear for more tan 10 mins....

All good points. It's men that tend to coin derogatory terms more often than women.

Happiness is a warm bum :)

Reply by MistressAngel_sub on Fri 16 Dec 2011

chartreuse wrote:
Why aren't men "nags"?

I was thinking about this earlier today and... I think men are rarely considered to be a "nag" because...

When they tell a woman what they want she listens, she makes it a priority; she doesn't want to let him (or herself) down and does what has been asked of her as soon as she can (the man usually forgets all about what he said), he has no need to keep on at her because it is done!

Women have to keep reminding men what they have been asked for/to do, if a man doesn't see what has been asked of him as a priority he doesn't bother/puts it off, hence... a woman becomes a "nag" because she HAS to keep reminding him!!

This is one of the failings of the male - they turn women into nags through their own thoughtlessness and inability to realise how important it is to please someone other than themselves!

Excellent insight and so true!

Reply by JClevis on Sat 17 Dec 2011

I realize this is a dangerous territory...but I'd like to throw in what I consider to be a real answer...

A fact true of either gender: Things that are important to us get done, and get done quickly. Things that are not as important can easily be put off.

The 'nag' starts when we have a difference of opinion as to what's important. When it's one partner's responsibility to do something that the other partner considers important, but the first partner doesn't really consider it so important, the problem starts. Sometimes it's a timing issue: I know it's important to do, I just don't agree it's important to do NOW.

The pertinent differentiator is the mechanism by which assignments are made between partners. Who assigns the tasks in your relationship?...do you each select your tasks from equality (e.g., I'll do the dishes...OK, I'll do the laundry)? Or does one person tend to make the assignments? This is really important. Are your assignments gender based according to traditional values? I read a great point by Ms. Rika back on a US-based board - some woman said she wanted her husband to "help out around the house" and Ms. Rika pointed out that the phrase "help out" implied that it was her work that needed to be done and he was doing her a favor by doing the work..he was "helping her out". In this case, the woman herself did not recognize that running a household is a SHARED responsibility, and let gender bias determine their assignments. Subtle, but those gender imperatives run deep.

In my life, 'nagging' came from my mother. My mother decided who did what when I was growing up (including my father's "tasks"), so it was natural that she relied on him and us to do things that we didn't consider very important...certainly not on her schedule...and so she found herself repeating, stomping, yelling, and yes...nagging.

I tend to quote Ms. Rika a lot (because I think she's brilliant and I read a lot of her writing). She says, "if you want a man to behave like a child, act like his mother".

If you find yourself nagging (and you don't like it), look at how you got there. Why can't you do whatever you want yourself? If you feel you SHOULDN'T because it's HIS responsibility, ask how it became his responsibility...did he volunteer for that task, or was he "assigned" it? Then ask why the timing needs to be the way it is. Why isn't he as aggravated as you are without it right now?

Look, in many cases, it probably IS his responsibility and it probably would be best done at that moment...but WHY doesn't he see it that way? Why is he acting like a child? Why doesn't he see his responsibility as an adult?

These are communication points...and it may not be an easy conversation...because frankly, it's much easier to be lazy and let gender-biased assignments rule a household. It's hard to recognize that certain activities are important enough to be shared and that both partners need to agree to step up to the plate and take on those assignments voluntarily.

Here is where I walk through the minefield: I believe you reap what you sow. If you allow yourself to accept traditional responsibilities, allow yourself to be the one doling out assignments (in a non-D/s manner), and are willing to nag to get something done, then that's what's going to happen. You will get what you tolerate and you have as much of a child on your hands as you allow yourself to mother.

Lastly, (and also something I've read from Ms. Rika), the word "Should" needs to be considered poison and removed from the vernacular. A man SHOULD consider this important...he SHOULD WANT to do it. I understand where it comes from (it's the basis for the conversations above), but getting frustrated over his lack of interest in things he "should" be interested in is fruitless. You both need to communicate better so you both understand why something is or isn't so important and then take responsibility from a shared, equal basis. Then your expectations of each other have a foundation.

The dynamics of D/s throw a HUGE monkey works into this discussion. For example, my wife cannot nag. She is a dominant - and all I want to do is make her happy - all the time...so if something is important to her, it's critical to me...Outside of a D/s dynamic, that simply doesn't exist with consistency, so that doesn't count.

Even our dynamic came as a result of this type of open communication. She knew what she would tolerate and made it clear to me. She's very consistent. This is the basis of our D/s dynamic. That's a different topic.

JC

Reply by jstripes on Sat 17 Dec 2011

Actually I have encountered men who are nags, but in these cases for some reason they get referred to as 'old women'.

Also, in my experience, women often nag about things that I can't do anything about. Then, when I don't do anything, simply because there really isn't anything useful that I could do about it, they get narked. What they actually seem to want is for me to make sympathetic noises rather than to do something tangible, and the frustration on the woman's part is not lack of tangible result, rather lack of commiseration, empathy and all that good stuff.

Reply by Sista_Sadista on Sat 17 Dec 2011

jstripes wrote:
Actually I have encountered men who are nags, but in these cases for some reason they get referred to as 'old women'.

:)

Haha!

So true...and I know a few 'old women'.

We really do need to create a new phrase for male nags.

Any suggestions?

you are a number. you're not a free man.

Reply by Gabriel_Fallen on Wed 7 Mar 2012

I have taken a bit of time reading through this thread, in my oppinion women shouldnt have to nag anyway, especially in f l r's but then again, my oppinion is somewhat biased, even if some people can be high maintenance.

I spent over 4 years in a vanilla(ish) relationship where I worked 12 hour shifts 5-6 days a week, payed all the bills, did all the housework and maintenance, serviced all my partners needs (even to the point of giving her 3 months with another man, sort of cuckolding but more for her), took her on holidays and daytrips and looked after my very ill grandfather, there was no need for nagging because everything was done for them.

she lived a very comfortable life, her earnings were spent on nights out etc for her and she had no need to even ask for anything most of the time because it was already done for her, eventually I got sick of it, it also left me physically, mentally, financially and emotionly drained but I would hapilly live a life something similar to that again but in more of a D/s relationship where there was a better financial understanding, also, everyone has needs, even me.

not all men need carrots or promises, just the responsibilty of care and the knowledge of keeping my partner happy is enough for me.

I dont nag because I would rather do most things for myself anyway and women shouldnt have to nag to get things done because a womans needs should be considered a priority. (high maintanance woman excluded from this ruling)

Well, thats my pennies worth atleast lol :)

PS, In my humble oppinion, male nags are just needy and high maintanence boys that need to learn to do things for themselves.

Thankyou for your concern padre but I do not seek forgiveness for my transgressions, nor do I repent for they are all I have left.

Reply by MissMorrigan on Wed 7 Mar 2012

This is definitely not my experience. I have encountered male 'nags' who repeat things because they simply will not accept an outcome they haven't liked.

Behaviour induced to initiate repeat requests to comply denotes manipulation.

If I have refused a request and stated why, it is not up for discussion and asking me several more times is not going to change that outcome despite the ingenuity with which it has been eased into a conversation to highlight it for discussion. It also denotes a lack of respect for my authority and if engaged in repeatedly despite open communication in an attempt to remedy this issue, the consequence of that will be an eventual conclusion to the relationship because clearly it denotes a lack of compatibility between us.

Prussian_blue wrote:
People repeat things because they think they haven't been heard, I reckon women tend do this more than men because a man generally doesn't signal understanding in the same way a woman does.

Only because for most of history woman hasn't been allowed a voice, has been subjugated without the choice and when attempting to voice an opinion it has been viewed as speaking out of turn, ie nagging.

nepthys wrote:
Historically 'nagging' was always seen as a female 'crime'(hence the Scold's bridle and similar devices).

Very very few documentary sources for men wearing Scold's bridles

I can wax lyrical about the subjugation of women and the ridiculing of 'nags' or dominant women...

The tooth fairy teaches kids to sell body parts for money ~ David Richerby

Reply by Lapdogxxx on Thu 8 Mar 2012

Men usually achieve what they need through negotiation, and a superior intelectual grasp of a situation. They don't need to verbally batter their partners into submission.

Has anyone seen the 'What women say and what men hear' clips on youtube?

This posting should ensure I stay bereft of Lady compny! I'm my own worst enemy :(.

Reply by Galvanic on Thu 8 Mar 2012

chartreuse wrote:

When the male has something he has to do, something he himself wants to do and has told the woman about, in order for her to be his memory, to remind him because he will forget... is her reminding him of what his plans are "nagging"?

It might be a bit simple and a bit obvious but I would tell my sub to write it down. A diary or a white board or a simple list in an exercise book. If they cannot remember for themselves then I am not their P.A. they need to find a mechanism that works for them. If it is important then they will find a way to remember as that is part of making me feel special. Of course if they then forget to read their list.. different situation with different consequences

Gabriel_Fallen wrote:

PS, In my humble oppinion, male nags are just needy and high maintanence boys that need to learn to do things for themselves.

I have encountered a few on IC... :-)

Quite Particular

Reply by MaxReebo on Fri 9 Mar 2012

Men tend to be far more pro-active in getting what they want.

A lot of what constitutes 'nagging' are in fact requests for tasks to be done that the femlae would quite likely like to do her self if she had the skill set/confidence.

Examples.... That shelf that needs putting up, the new taps that need fitting etc..

Traditionaly these task have been handled by men. I know very few women who could do the above tasks, or at least not as well as their male partner.

Its this powerlessness that manifests itself as 'nagging'

maxreebo

Reply by GoddessBabyCakes on Fri 9 Mar 2012

MaxReebo wrote:
Men tend to be far more pro-active in getting what they want.

A lot of what constitutes 'nagging' are in fact requests for tasks to be done that the femlae would quite likely like to do her self if she had the skill set/confidence.

Examples.... That shelf that needs putting up, the new taps that need fitting etc..

Traditionaly these task have been handled by men. I know very few women who could do the above tasks, or at least not as well as their male partner.

Its this powerlessness that manifests itself as 'nagging'

maxreebo

This gets my biggest Bollocks vote of the year.

I'm perfectly capable of doing 'man' jobs - I can plaster the walls better than any male in the family, I can file my own tax return, I can put up shelves, lay a patio, change the oil, whatever. The reason I occasionally nag is because whatever it is that I asked, didn't get done in the timeframe I desired it to be done. It's that simple.

Men know they have to do the job requested. You just need to be specific. You know, SMART objectives. So if I want the house tidied, or the bin put out, or my shirt ironed, he also gets a specific time (this evening, before 7am, whatever) and it gets done. Of course it helps he is wonderful, but most men respond well to a clear assignment. That gets through a lot better than 'can you put that shelf up?' - He might think, yeah after the world cup and work's not too busy and the car has had the MOT. She might think: this weekend. Cue irritation.

As for pro-active in getting what I want? Ahem. Yes. I don't hang around...

Generally, women nag simply because something they want doing isn't getting done when they want it done. Men generally don't care as much about 'mediocre' things. They don't see that shelf as very important. It isn't, in the grand scheme of things. But remember, as the man, you're there to play superhero sometimes. You'll be treated as such if you comply ;)

Men that understand how women like things to be 'right' tend to appreciate a woman's need for her home to be tidy and clean and warm etc before she can relax and enjoy herself, for instance. (Sex. Yes. We need our brain to switch off from all the jobs listed in our head before we can properly enjoy sex. Bear that in mind next time!) So he acts on that. Even if it as simple as verifying when she wants it doing. If she says now, she usually means right now. Drop everything now. She has her reasons, they may be unclear, but it's MUCH easier to do as you're told than to waste hours in arguments as to why it didn't get done. End result: you still have to do it, but she will be miserable on top of that. In many a good marriage that I've seen, the man accepts that he has to do things her way when it comes to the stuff women nag about. It's usually nothing major. It just needs doing. You're the man to do it.

Fair? Probably not. But then we also know not to walk in front of you when you're on the latest GTA on the Xbox or Ronaldo is about to score.

Give and take, children. It's not that complicated....

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act” - George Orwell

"In order to be irreplaceable, one must always be different" - Coco Chanel

Please check out @FemDom_Forum too!

Reply by MaxReebo on Fri 9 Mar 2012

MissKimberley wrote:
MaxReebo wrote:
Men tend to be far more pro-active in getting what they want.

A lot of what constitutes 'nagging' are in fact requests for tasks to be done that the femlae would quite likely like to do her self if she had the skill set/confidence.

Examples.... That shelf that needs putting up, the new taps that need fitting etc..

Traditionaly these task have been handled by men. I know very few women who could do the above tasks, or at least not as well as their male partner.

Its this powerlessness that manifests itself as 'nagging'

maxreebo

This gets my biggest Bollocks vote of the year.

I'm perfectly capable of doing 'man' jobs - I can plaster the walls better than any male in the family, I can file my own tax return, I can put up shelves, lay a patio, change the oil, whatever. The reason I occasionally nag is because whatever it is that I asked, didn't get done in the timeframe I desired it to be done. It's that simple.

Men know they have to do the job requested. You just need to be specific. You know, SMART objectives. So if I want the house tidied, or the bin put out, or my shirt ironed, he also gets a specific time (this evening, before 7am, whatever) and it gets done. Of course it helps he is wonderful, but most men respond well to a clear assignment. That gets through a lot better than 'can you put that shelf up?' - He might think, yeah after the world cup and work's not too busy and the car has had the MOT. She might think: this weekend. Cue irritation.

As for pro-active in getting what I want? Ahem. Yes. I don't hang around...

Generally, women nag simply because something they want doing isn't getting done when they want it done. Men generally don't care as much about 'mediocre' things. They don't see that shelf as very important. It isn't, in the grand scheme of things. But remember, as the man, you're there to play superhero sometimes. You'll be treated as such if you comply ;)

Men that understand how women like things to be 'right' tend to appreciate a woman's need for her home to be tidy and clean and warm etc before she can relax and enjoy herself, for instance. (Sex. Yes. We need our brain to switch off from all the jobs listed in our head before we can properly enjoy sex. Bear that in mind next time!) So he acts on that. Even if it as simple as verifying when she wants it doing. If she says now, she usually means right now. Drop everything now. She has her reasons, they may be unclear, but it's MUCH easier to do as you're told than to waste hours in arguments as to why it didn't get done. End result: you still have to do it, but she will be miserable on top of that. In many a good marriage that I've seen, the man accepts that he has to do things her way when it comes to the stuff women nag about. It's usually nothing major. It just needs doing. You're the man to do it.

Fair? Probably not. But then we also know not to walk in front of you when you're on the latest GTA on the Xbox or Ronaldo is about to score.

Give and take, children. It's not that complicated....

I was talking in general terms. There are of course always exceptions to the rule.

As you say, its about give and take. However the OP seems to be going down the route that if something isnt right, it must be the males fault...

So... if I am awarded the 'biggest bollocks' trophy, what do I win?? :)

Maxreebo

Reply by Empress_Martine on Fri 9 Mar 2012

MaxReebo wrote:
Men tend to be far more pro-active in getting what they want.

A lot of what constitutes 'nagging' are in fact requests for tasks to be done that the femlae would quite likely like to do her self if she had the skill set/confidence.

Examples.... That shelf that needs putting up, the new taps that need fitting etc..

Traditionaly these task have been handled by men. I know very few women who could do the above tasks, or at least not as well as their male partner.

Its this powerlessness that manifests itself as 'nagging'

maxreebo

Totally and absolute boulderdash!If this was true then explain why both women and my kind can do your jobs with ease? And another thing! It was you lot who got us into the economic mess we are in now!! Explain that? Men are nags,ones that should be taken to slaughter yard and shoot!

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch."a fragment,Ihad a face on the mirror" Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup

Reply by PeterPan1972 on Fri 9 Mar 2012

If we would nag, mankind would die out within one generation.

The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going, at 66,000 miles an hour, around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.

Reply by I_am_a_ladies_man on Sat 10 Mar 2012 (modified Sun 11 Mar 2012)

Men don't alway hear what women say. We have this ability to appear to be listening yet we are somewhere else. We developed this talent dealing with our mothers. I was put in hospital as a child because she thought I had a hearing problem. Laugh if you want, it is funny. But it wasn't at the time. They were going to do ENT opp but didn't in the end. My dad had chickens and when the clucking he would say yes dear very good dear. I would help him wring their necks when the time came. Are you laughing still. Now getting to the nuts of this, can this explain my personality now. I think that most boys would'nt turn out like me..

Reply by proccie on Sat 10 Mar 2012

Oh for goodness sake why are you lot still going on about this? Go on go away and do something more useful like mowing the lawn or making my breakfast.

Zen S&M: The sound of one hand slapping.

'()_/)

(>'.'<)

(")_(") < MINE!

Reply by proccie on Sat 10 Mar 2012

happy_bunny wrote:
i don't nag, i hint, then i hint again a couple of weeks later, then again every few weeks, eventully i go get his precious tools, saw thingys and the shelves, measuring tape,... these are then proptly taken from me and magicly the shelves go up same day :) now how do i go about putting up a fence? what ratio of water to cement ? :)

1:2, tools are in the shed.

Zen S&M: The sound of one hand slapping.

'()_/)

(>'.'<)

(")_(") < MINE!

Reply by merrynb99 on Sun 11 Mar 2012

I don't call it "nagging", I call it "reminding". As in, "please don't forget to put money in the household account" or "please don't throw your dirty boots in a corner of the room". He doesn't call it "nagging" either.

He calls it "ball-busting"

:-D

Reply by Empress_Martine on Mon 12 Mar 2012

Just stick the tools in his hands and tell him to get on with it,otherwise he does not get fed! :-D

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch. Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup Vist a friend of mine at www.Industrialaardvark.com

Reply by rehtael_ni_dal on Mon 12 Mar 2012

chartreuse wrote:
Why aren't men "nags"?

.

Christ on a bike !!! - stop naggin women !

;)

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire (François-Marie Arouet (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778)

Reply by Ama_Sidero on Mon 12 Mar 2012

Every time I see the title I just think...."because they can't be arsed if it is done or not!"

@Play_Space - Next party is Friday, March 2, 2012 and the first Friday of every month!

Road Trip to the Sea!!! The October trip has tJust elapsed...More info here.

Reply by Empress_Martine on Tue 13 Mar 2012

chartreuse wrote:
Ama_Sidero wrote:
Every time I see the title I just think...."because they can't be arsed if it is done or not!"

Heheh... I think you're probably right, if it's not important to them, it's not important.

Still that is the way they think.But as I always say control the dick and you control the man.

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch. Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup Vist a friend of mine at www.Industrialaardvark.com

Reply by GoddessBabyCakes on Wed 14 Mar 2012

chartreuse wrote:
Empress_Martine wrote:
Still that is the way they think.But as I always say control the dick and you control the man.

Men ARE dicks. :-D

Oh darling, you wonder why you can't find that elusive man of your dreams ...

<runs for the hills>

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act” - George Orwell

"In order to be irreplaceable, one must always be different" - Coco Chanel

Please check out @FemDom_Forum too!

Reply by Empress_Martine on Wed 14 Mar 2012

MissKimberley wrote:
chartreuse wrote:
Empress_Martine wrote:
Still that is the way they think.But as I always say control the dick and you control the man.

Men ARE dicks. :-D

Oh darling, you wonder why you can't find that elusive man of your dreams ...

<runs for the hills>

Simples,everytime you find one,he turns into a frog,the green kind. :-D

http://empressm7.uboot.com/ http://www.socialkink.com/empressmartine pro/lifestyle ts dom/switch. Owner of @Pro_Trans_Dommes and @TheTransGroup Vist a friend of mine at www.Industrialaardvark.com

Reply by Wildfire on Wed 14 Mar 2012

Prussian_blue wrote:
chartreuse wrote:
So... man should be "rewarded" with something sexual, for his pleasure, in order to do anything a woman asks of him!
I didn't mean something quite so forward :) A hint is all that is required.

Touch his neck and ask him to put the bins out, reward that task with a kiss later. Now he's associated doing that with getting a kiss - in the future bin duty will have a priority. If you want him to climb Mt Everest because your G&T needs ice, then you can raise the stakes a little.

chartreuse wrote:
If a man doesn't want to turn his woman into a nag why can't he just please her and do as he has been asked, at the first time of asking, in the same way a woman would?

Doing what someone else asks isn't a priority, getting what he wants is. All it takes is for him to see that doing x gets him y later. Women aren't driven by anything quite so primal, jewellery and shoes are more abstract motivators.

Now I'm wondering how you got to be a domme without knowing how to manipulate men :)

The same philosophy is used to train dogs, reward and the behaviour is repeated.

Reply by Wildfire on Wed 14 Mar 2012

Mattbucks wrote:

Man: Darling I know you need to hang all your clothes up, but would you please be able to leave the last quarter inch of the rail so that I can hang up my work shirts, thanks. Result: Woman knows to leave a bit of space for his work shirts

Women: Darling, I have lots of clothes that need to hang up so I can look my best for work. Results: Man wonders what she is on about when she already has three quarters of the hanging space in the wardrobes.

One way of communicating isn't necessarily right or wrong, another woman would probably understand exactly what the woman meant, and would probably find the mans way slightly abrubt.

I always do the above at work all the time when I want something done from my collagues and it works a treat.

At home, however I expect my partner to take responsibility of doing things on his own accord but this only happens when I give the right instructions - women get so tired of this, as this implies that the responsibility is always theirs and its not shared as they have to think about what is required and provide the instructions. Their partner can be a senior executive with high responsibilities or a person who stacks shelves for a living - the complaints I hear from my female friends are always the same ' why do I have to state the obvious that needs doing?'

Reply by Wildfire on Wed 14 Mar 2012

chartreuse wrote:
Let's look at this from a slightly different angle, shall we?

Let's say, for example, that a male (sub) has a terrible memory, he admits it, recognises it and gives the power of his memory to the woman (dominant).

When the male has something he has to do, something he himself wants to do and has told the woman about, in order for her to be his memory, to remind him because he will forget... is her reminding him of what his plans are "nagging"?

If you can't remember, write a list!